My maternal grandmother’s mother’s family emigrated from somewhere in Prussia. Ancestry has further refined some of the ethnicity findings, and now they are showing me with 6.1% Eastern European (this has been there in varying amounts both here and on 23andme from the beginning). What is different is that Ancestry now believes that this small portion of my ancestors came specificially from an area right around and including Krakow. Their prediction is considered “strong.”
None of my ancestors were supposedly Polish, but approximately 12.5% were Prussians living in an area that is now considered Poland. They spoke German. The descendants of ancestors who stayed behind in Europe were probably relocated after WWII when the Poles expelled the Prussians. Some Prussians also fled the area on their own. I find this an interesting fact of history. I studied history throughout college and even did some graduate work in history, yet I never learned this information until I was researching my own family history. Have we swept the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Germans under the carpet because it came during the complete revelation of the extent of Nazi atrocities? Was it “payback” for what the Nazis did?
What might this Krakow DNA result mean?
I don’t know!
I started to go through the calculations and comparisons with my mother’s DNA again, but that really leads nowhere as they still have not refined things enough. For example, they haven’t found Krakow in my mother’s results. I checked my father’s just to see, and he has zero Eastern European DNA, so all this EE I have comes from Mom’s family. Interestingly, both my parents have DNA from Norway and Sweden, and mine shows up as all Swedish, but we know that means very little. What all this can mean is that Krakow is probably a clue to the Prussians.
More importantly, can this DNA result help me find my Prussians back in the days when they lived in Prussia?
I had it figured out that my Prussians might have come from Schwetzkow, Pommern (Pomerania), Prussia, based upon one record that I found that might apply to one of my Noffke relatives.
Where is Krakow in relationship to Schwetzkow? Krakow is at the south end of Poland, very near the border with the Czech Republic. It’s about 432 miles south of Schwetzkow (which was in Sweden at one point, although it’s on the continent). I guess Krakow is just another clue I have to stick in the back of my mind for possible later use, I guess.
Or maybe Ancestry will take away Krakow when they update their results next time. Who knows.
Here is what I would like to learn: what does Prussian DNA tend to look like? Does it look German? Because German DNA according to Ancestry is spread out in rings around what we think of as Germany today. This includes a large portion of Poland. Does it look Scandinavian? Some of Prussia was, in fact, in Sweden, as I mention above. Does it look Polish, since so much of it was on the land that later became Poland? I have not really gotten a straight answer about this from anybody. Maybe they don’t really know yet!
In the meantime, I think DNA is not going to help me find my Prussian ancestors. I need RECORDS for that. Something I still do not have.
Back to the drawing board.
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On another note, I often write about my Dutch ancestors. Here is an interesting article that relates to the first wave of Dutch immigrants to the United States. It’s about a church building in Brooklyn that is over 200 years old–the church itself, a Reformed Church, was first founded in 1677. Can a Church Founded in 1677 Survive the 21st Century?
Very good post and interesting point of view. I too am looking into how to figure out my German ancestors. Thank you.
Have you started trying to find records in Europe? I find it so frustrating that German records are not in a national repository online :). The Dutch and French are–so nice!
Not yet trying to get them sorted out in the US before attempting the next challenge.
And it is such a challenge!
I guess I remain a skeptic when it comes to these DNA ethnicity reports. There is no such thing as a German gene or a Polish gene just as there is no such thing as a Jewish gene or a Christian gene. From what I understand, these are all statistical estimates based on the pool of test takers each company has and the self-identification of the ethnic backgrounds of those test takers. Why has Ancestry singled out Krakow? What could that mean except that others who identified their roots as being from Krakow have some DNA that overlaps with your DNA? And what if those people are wrong about being from Krakow? How do we know?
So I would stick to the paper trail and traditional research and treat DNA ethnicity results like we treat unsourced Ancestry family trees. A possible hint at a path to consider, but not actual evidence of anything reliable.
I know that these companies do imply that there is such as a thing as a German gene or Polish gene. Even the first results for me coming out of 23andme showed me with a specifically Polish gene. That is the only specific one I had. And they certainly can’t do that for French, German, Dutch. They all imply there is such a thing as an Ashkenazy gene. And, yes, singling out Krakow implies there is a gene specific to that area. HOWEVER, I think they are lying by implying. You are right that this is all based on their pools of test takers.
And it’s also dangerous. Racism and all kinds of prejudice can be promoted based on “genetic superiority.”
Super good point, Amy!
Good luck analyzing your DNA results. Can’t you just wait until DNA techniques really advance? It will probably be an amazing tool in the near future. Also, wow!…a church still standing from 1677? Going now to read that article. Thanks!
Some day it will be interesting. I am waiting to be told that I for sure have Viking genes ;).
The church story is so cool. What a pretty church, too, right in Brooklyn!
That’s funny – I was just looking at the updates for the few kits I managing for family…sometimes it doesn’t seem to fit, sometimes it does. I find it interesting especially when my research lines up with their findings (Ancestry, MyHeritage, GedMatch) It’s been helpful in sorting out families in some cases for me. I haven’t seen anything specific like reference to ‘Krakow’ for you – always seems to be more general. hmmmmmm
Yes, I’ve seen more general always, too, so when the very particular city comes in and is far from where any of my ancestors are supposed to be from, it’s so strange!!!
I like when it lines up, too haha!
DNa tests can be interesting, but they are based on certain collections of genes, so doubt if they can really be accepted as proof. Crucially, they depend on the size of the sample they are based on, which for many companies is not big enough to really mean much. Such tests can be used to establish if people are close relatives, but I suspect you are probably wasting your money.
Yes, they can establish close relatives and also 2nd, 3rd, and 4th cousins. That I’ve seen. Very reliable. But the other stuff. Ugh, just based on their pool of info. And since we know so many Ancestry trees are full of misinformation, imagine the misinformation given relating to DNA ethnicity estimates!
My mother came from Berlin and many of her ancestors were Prussian though one line came from Baden and Karlsruhe. She hasn’t yet tested but from my results I am 31% Germanic and nothing specific within those results and the remainder English, Scottish and Irish.earlier estimates were less Germanic. I deduce little from my ethnicity predictions.
So what about your father’s ethnicity? Because that of course would have a big effect. It is clear that they don’t have enough information yet to really tell, but I find it so strange they would pinpoint a specific city and surrounding region the way they did this time.
My father’s tree is quite well tracked and lots of confirmed DNA matches. Basically his ethnicity is 56% England Wales and North-Western Europe and 44% Ireland and Scotland. Still nothing from the new results.I am really looking forward to when my mother gets around to taking the tests – she has promised to now and she has kits from ancestry and MyHeritage but has not done yet.
Good luck with this! So hard to motivate some . . . .
Very interesting, Luanne…Krakow…now that is a name I know. Wouldn’t it be something if you could trace your family’s Prussian ties!
My own Ancestry updates have been through actual records lately – I’m not sure why. Anyway, if I followed all the “hints” I would be either be truly informed or slightly deranged with all the information.
Genealogy work sucks you in.
Beware those hints. So much sloppy stuff on Ancestry. But the records are something else–very helpful.
Have you read “The Stranger in My Genes” by Bill Griffeth? After reading it, I decided I’ve spent too much time researching my family to find that somewhere in the past there could be a stranger in my genes which would negate all that research, so I won’t be doing any DNA tests. Obviously what you’re looking for is focusing more on ethnicity than parentage, but something to think about. I really enjoyed the book though.
I’ve read about the book. So interesting. And you’re right that the stranger could be at any generation level. In fact, very likely there is at least one. BUT I’ve seen adoptees do painstaking work on their adoptive family trees because they feel part of the lineage that went into creating how they were brought up. It’s all interesting to me, even if the DNA doesn’t match the research.
That’s true. In his case it voided his Mayflower connection which had been such an integral part of his life. But you’re right, I know so much about my Mayflower and Revolutionary War ancestors that I would still think of them as my own as much as I do my blood relatives.
That’s how I feel when I end up researching other people’s families, such as my family’s neighbors, in-laws, etc.
It’s interesting to read about your DNA results, and how you combine this information with other things you know about your family to make sense of them.
Although it turns out to be pretty nonsensical ;)!
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Hey mate, I think you’re posing a very interesting question here in regards to what Prussian DNA would look like. Because these areas of Poland had been settled by Germans since the 11th and 12th it definitely was very similar to modern German, especially eastern German DNA, but still different. Before the Germans went there, however, Balto-Slavic settlers had lived there for centuries and a process of assimilation and immigration led to an intermixing of their DNA, which ultimately created a German-Balto-Slavic mix to varying degrees. So the Eastern European DNA detected in your test might as well comes from your Prussian ancestors. I’m planning to write an article about the history and the genetic make-up of Germany, Prussia and Europe as a whole in the near future, so if you’d like to find out more I suggest to give it a read 🙂